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Influential Republicans Disagree with Snyder on Voter Fraud Veto

In our first Red Mitten survey, more than half of the respondents say they disagree with Republican Gov. Rick Snyder’s decision to veto a GOP-backed bill that requires photo ID for first-time voter registration or to obtain an absentee ballot.

Conservative Michigan insiders disagree with Gov. Rick Snyder’s decision to veto a bill dealing with voter fraud: that’s the finding of this week’s inaugural Red Mitten survey of influential Republicans.

Fifty-one conservatives from southeastern Michigan used an automated anonymous survey tool to offer their opinions about voter fraud in the state.

Thirty responses were collected.

According to Politico.com, Snyder said he vetoed the bill because it could cause "confusion among absentee voters."

But some respondents in the Red Mitten survey feel differently.

In fact, more than half, 53.3 percent, say they disagree with Snyder’s decision to veto a GOP-backed bill that requires photo ID for first-time voter registration or to obtain an absentee ballot. Another 16.7 percent say they somewhat disagree with the governor’s veto.

But 20 percent say they agree with Snyder, a Republican, while another 10 percent say they somewhat agree.

“Voter fraud exists and needs to be eliminated as much as possible,” one respondent said. “The integrity of the ballot is THE most important liberty we have as Americans.”

Said another respondent: “Disenfranchisement occurs not only when people aren’t allowed to vote, it also (occurs) when those who aren’t allowed to vote do vote.”

More than half of respondents, 56.7 percent, say they agree or somewhat agree that voter fraud is a big problem in Michigan. Twenty-seven percent say they disagree or somewhat disagree, while 16.7 percent were neutral.

Seventy percent of respondents say they agree or somewhat agree that Michigan needs legislation to address voter fraud, while just 13.3 percent say they disagree or somewhat disagree.

Despite support for legislation against voter fraud, respondents had less enthusiasm about pushing it as a platform for Republicans on the local and state level during the upcoming campaign.

Less than half, 43.3 percent, say they agree or somewhat agree that pushing for voter fraud legislation would be a winning platform for Michigan Republicans at the local and state level. Forty percent say they disagree or somewhat disagree, while 16.7 percent were neutral.

One respondent said potential voter fraud is “not one of the most important issues facing the state at this time.”

Said another: “We have far more pressing economic issues!”

The Red Mitten Survey

Our surveys are not a scientific random sample of any larger population but rather an effort to listen to influential local Republican activists, party leaders and elected officials in Michigan. All of these individuals have agreed to participate in the surveys, although not all responded to this week's questions. Surveys were conducted between July 12 and July 22, 2012.

Patch will be conducting Red Mitten surveys for Republicans and Blue Mitten surveys for Democrats throughout 2012 in hopes of determining the true sentiment of conservatives and liberals in Michigan. If you are an activist, party leader or elected official and would like to take part in weekly surveys that last just a few minutes, please email Associate Regional Editor John Hetzler at john.hetzler@patch.com.

Red Michigan roster: Prudy Adam (Genesee County Republican Chair); Neal Barnett (Bloomfield Township Trustee); Brian Belesky; Cindy Berry (Candidate for Chesterfield Township Clerk); Mark Bliss (Candidate for State Rep); Tony Brown (Fenton Township Trustee); Dino Bucci (Macomb Township Trustee); Jim Carson (Dexter Village trustee); Jacob Collison; Helen Cost (Past President of Royal Oak Republican Women’s Club); Hugh Crawford (State Rep); Kathy Crawford (Oakland County Commissioner); Joseph Daly; Dan Devine (Bloomfield Township Treasurer); James Drolett (Candidate for Dexter Township Supervisor); Janet Dunn (Macomb Township Trustee); Ryan Eaton; Kathy Elliott; Justin Fischer (Novi City Council); Anthony Forlini (State Rep); Becky Freeman; Scott Freeman; Bob Gatt (Mayor of Novi); Matt Germane (Hartland Township Trustee); Joe Green; Pat Hardy (Bloomfield Hills City Commissioner); Karen Jacobsen (Candidate for U.S. Congress, 12th District); Corinne Khederian (Bloomfield Township Trustee); Richard Lerner (Farmington Hills City Council); C.J. Maier (Candidate for sheriff in Livingston County); Mike McCready (Bloomfield Hills City Commissioner, Candidate for State Rep); Sarah McLure (Bloomfield Hills Mayor); Rob Montilla (Chairman of the Republican Committee of Northern Macomb County); Drex Morton; Nancy Nevers (Macomb Township Trustee); Mark Ouimet (State Rep); Thomas Pustelak; Harley Rider (Dexter Township Clerk); Janet Roncelli (Bloomfield Township Clerk); Jim Runestad (Oakland County Commissioner); Aaron Sarver (U-M Dearborn College Republicans Co-Chairman); John A. Scott (Oakland County Commissioner); Bill Shaw (Candidate for Oakland County Commissioner); Pat Somerville (State Rep); David Staudt (Mayor Pro-Tem of Novi); Shelley Taub (Bloomfield Township Clerk); Brad Urdan (candidate for state Rep); Wanda Warsinski (President of Royal Oak Republican Women’s Club); Paul Welday; John Wolfsberger (Macomb Township Precinct Delegate); Wayne Wrobel (Novi City Council); Tom Yaschen (Chesterfield Township Trustee)

NO Dia Tax July 30, 2012 at 04:24 am
YES PLEASE DO - pay particular attention to pages 17, 18 and 19
http://audgen.michigan.gov/finalpdfs/11_12/r231023511.pdf How can two people read the exact same thing and get two COMPLETELY different outcomes from the same words on the same page?
NO Dia Tax July 30, 2012 at 04:30 am
Perhaps the fact that the current administration in Washington has been slowly and systematically dismantling the immigration system since day one? The number of illegals in this country has never been higher. The number of deportations has never been lower. In some counties the number of registered voters exceeds the US census numbers of total population. The DREAM ACT has been implemented by Executive Order, similar to a Decree from the King, bypassing Congress at every step and turn.
It IS a clear and straightforward plan to insure more people are able to vote FOR THE INCUMBENT ADMINISTRATION. Voter ID laws in Harris County Texas let to a national movement called True The Vote, a non-partisan all volunteer effort that put several Texans in jail and got a host of news laws passed. The JUDGES in that county thanked the volunteers and BEGGED them to return in the following election cycles. What YOU call " voter suppression " we call VOTER INTEGRITY.
bvwatson July 30, 2012 at 06:36 am
@NO Dia Tax: your allegations about recent immigration management efforts by this administration are unfounded. It echos dire warnings made long before the administration took office, and does not measure up to the facts.
The fact is that the deportation of illegal aliens has risen dramatically over the last three years, much to the annoyance of many in the Hispanic community. Your allegations about registered voters exceeding census-counted population, even if true, are an issue with county voter registrars, not with administration policy. Most voter registrars take their job extremely seriously, knowing that they are under intense scrutiny from all sides these days. Most to the point, however, is that the legislation in question here has no effect at all on immigration, alien registration or citizenship. There is no provision in the legislation that requires proof of citizenship to be shown. So -- with respect to the issue before us -- citizenship is not an issue. If voting by non-citizens is the perceived problem, this legislation does nothing to address it. And, even though you used lots of capital letters, your points are neither well-made nor well-argued.
Greg Schlitt July 30, 2012 at 01:05 pm
Lucille, this data is from the state Auditor General, not a group with political ties. It is by nature non-partisan. Thus, I will (and others should as well) consider their findings more accurate than any paid private study.
NO Dia Tax, I have read the entire report. And in fact, my original post quotes page 17. (see above). The SoS stated, while admitting it appeared that some illegal votes were cast, upon review of voter records, there was not one verifiable instance where this was confirmed true. I have no idea what you are reading if you come to a different conclusion. Lastly, I am not a fan of conspiracy theories. However, I do question Ruth Johnson's motivation. In the report to the AG she states there is no issue with voter fraud in Michigan. Now, less than 6 months later she is standing before the state legislature claiming that something needs to be done about rampant voter fraud. So which is it? Was there an election between May 2012 when the report was released and today that was riddled with fraudulent votes?
Chad July 30, 2012 at 06:51 pm
The only way Republicans win elections is by suppressing the votes of minorities and the elderly and by keeping their constituency severely misinformed and ignorant. This voter fraud B.S. is simply a cover for one facet of the GOP agenda of getting rid if President Obama, no matter the cost. We have already seen how they are willing to sacrifice the economy in pursuit of this goal, and now we are learning that Republicans are willing to sacrifice your and my right to vote. The fact is that when more Americans vote, Republicans don't do as well in elections, and they know it. The backlash to all this right wing government intrusion should be interesting, and severe. Many of the comments above simply parrot the GOP talking pointse spewed by Limbaugh and Faux News. They are false and meaningless.
DJG July 30, 2012 at 07:54 pm
Wow...who put the fresh set of blinders on you Chad? You're acting like it's some secret the GOP wants to get rid of Obama. Um...yep, last time I checked he's a democrat. Isn't it the other parties job to compete with another?
By showing ID, that's sacrificing the right to vote? What about the house, senate and other presidential votes taken without voter ID? Just pure coincidences that Republicans won any of them. Republicans don't do well in Elections? I don't know what is thinner...your views or your excuses. Pretty close race.
kidcat24 July 30, 2012 at 08:06 pm
In the 2010 congressional election only 40% of the voters voted.
Joe Somebody July 30, 2012 at 10:38 pm
Here's a concept for you, why not make the penalty for fraud more extreme?
BTW, IMO, to make elections more "meaningful", why not wipe out party line voting? Sure that would make voting for a "party" more difficult. But wouldn't it also make the voter think? You see, IMO, our problems aren't one party or another but that people "think" one party is better than the other. Truth is, they both stink. If you have no idea who you are voting for, you (again IMO) shouldn't be voting to begin with. That way we just might get rid of pandering politicians like Dangerously Incompetent Debbie Stabenow.
DCC July 31, 2012 at 02:23 pm
An observation: "And finally...voter fraud is virtually non-existent, happening less often than people dying when their TVs fall on top of them. But in those few cases where voter fraud actually occurs – it tends to be Republicans committing it. John Enright, a Republican candidate for supervisor in Pinal County, Arizona, has dropped out of the race after accusations surfaced that his companion – whom he lived with until her death in 2007 – has been voting from the grave for five years since her death. Enright claims he's dropping out of the race for other reasons – and denies any role in illegally casting ballots on behalf of his former companion. This case is fascinating, but I'm more interested in hearing an explanation from Mitt Romney – who committed voter fraud back in 2010 when he voted for Scott Brown in Massachusetts when he live in California and didn't own a home in Massachusetts. So either quarter-billionaire Mitt Romney, who owned mansions in California and New Hampshire, was sleeping in his son's unfinished basement – without his butler, maid, or chauffeur - all pretty unlikely - OR – he committed voter fraud and should face five years in jail and a $10,000 fine. So which is it, Mitt?" - http://goo.gl/JfG6o
Opps! Perhaps Bain will not be the bane of his campaign. I don't expect an answer until Willard releases tax returns back to 2000 just like President Obama has. Or, in other words, 'til "heck" freezes over.
Angela July 31, 2012 at 04:09 pm
Meh - as long as people need ID to collect benefits, they'll have the ID they need to vote.
DJG July 31, 2012 at 07:53 pm
Darryl..according to Chad, up above... Republicans don't do well in elections.
You should have nothing to worry about.
Michigan Voter July 31, 2012 at 09:53 pm
I agree. This is voter suppression under the guise of preventing voter fraud.
Most of the sheeple will go along with it based on a lie just like they went along with other republican lies like the WMDs in Iraq.
Michigan Voter July 31, 2012 at 09:54 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with this comment.
Michigan Voter July 31, 2012 at 10:16 pm
@DJG
Republicans do quite well in districts that were drawn just for them, in elections where voter turnout is low, or when the vote is suppressed. But, when those conditions aren't met, they would get clobbered. Take the presidency. Mittens wouldn't even come close to Obama if the general election were held today and the electoral college did not exist. Why? Most of America doesn't want an elitist with no foreign policy experience in the White House. And, Bush wouldn't have won in 2000 but for the moron known as Katherine Harris and the black voter (I mean felon) purge down in FL. Voter suppression works.
DJG August 1, 2012 at 12:55 pm
@Michigan Voter... I'll remember your objection after Nov. when Obama is gone. So..in your opinion, if we change the whole electoral process Republicans would get clobbered? Nice try. I'll counter that with if we educated voters properly, Democrats would get clobbered. I know, it doesn't make much sense...but hey, you started the fantasy. I was just contributing.
DCC August 1, 2012 at 01:16 pm
@DJG - actually, without the electoral college, the polls show a very tight race. It is, but the electoral college exists, and therein is the real factor. Feel free to consult http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com
DJG August 1, 2012 at 02:28 pm
@ Darryl.
This is a quote from Michigan Voter, not me. "But, when those conditions aren't met, they would get clobbered. Take the presidency. Mittens wouldn't even come close to Obama if the general election were held today and the electoral college did not exist." So...just another informed "voter"...
Kevin G August 1, 2012 at 04:37 pm
WOW, lengthy discussion. I just don't see the difficulty level in having an ID. From the age of 16 when we are excited to get our license, we carry ID. If you are the type to want to make change in this country & you care enough to vote, take your 15 important minutes & go get an official ID & be done with it. Period.
Michigan Voter August 1, 2012 at 05:43 pm
"Kanazawa's paper shows that more-intelligent people are more likely to say they are liberal. They are also less likely to say they go to religious services. These aren't entirely new findings; last year, for example, a British team found that kids with higher intelligence scores were more likely to grow into adults who vote for Liberal Democrats, even after the researchers controlled for socioeconomics."
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1968042,00.html
Michigan Voter August 1, 2012 at 05:56 pm
"without the electoral college, the polls show a very tight race. It is, but the electoral college exists, and therein is the real factor. Feel free to consult "
Accepting those numbers to be true, there is still a couple of MILLION votes separating Mittens and Obama.
DJG August 1, 2012 at 07:47 pm
Well, MI voter...I guess that's why politicians win via election, not "polls'...so we'll see.
Tony Montana August 2, 2012 at 01:56 am
Voting shouldn't be a right. The voters need to show some mental stability and common knowledge of politics. Too many candidates get votes because "oh, that guy is gonna get me more welfare!" It's getting to a point where it's ridiculous.
DCC August 2, 2012 at 02:32 am
Kevin, not everyone gets a driver's license. Many who once had a driver's license no longer have one. The image of just walking up to the SS office and getting a photo taken as the only thing necessary to get one is a lie.
From http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DE40_032001_20459_7.pdf the state requires information that can be very costly to reconstruct. If you already were a registered voter, requiring that person to spend money to re-establish that registration is a poll tax. Of course, if you couldn't see the difficulty before, you probably won't study the SoS requirements at the link above to understand the error of your analysis.
ConcernedParent August 2, 2012 at 02:48 am
I know. Those bankers, CEOs and oil companies should never be allowed to vote!
DCC August 2, 2012 at 03:18 am
How about the candidates who sell the votes to corporate interests because the corporation promises and delivers campaign funding, and those who benefit by corporations creating lies about candidates who oppose their interests and thus convince voters to vote against their natural self interest?
Wait, what candidate is promising more welfare? What century are you in? Or did you just blowing on that dog whistle again? If you don't think voting should be a right, there are plenty of countries whose leadership agrees with you, and probably would welcome your self-deportation to them. As to demonstrating mental stability and common knowledge of politics, would you disqualify those who think Ronald Reagan was the great tax cutter, that the invasion of Iraq was because their people flew airplanes into the World Trade Center, or that believe Sarah Palin really could see Russia from her house?.
DJG August 2, 2012 at 02:09 pm
I gotta admit, ConcernedP, that's pretty darned funny and I can't argue that.
I'll see your banker, CEO and oil companies, and raise you public and private unions. DC... Let's just call it what it is. Votes are bought and paid for, by both parties. Via promises made on the trail, back door/back room promises for legislation, or funding/fund raisers. However, you will never, ever see that go away. There are too many people getting fed off the lobby/promise system. Something else you'll never see go away... Does anyone realize...Congress still operates on a schedule as if they took a horse and buggy home? If you take away weekends and holiday, Congress is still only in session and working just over 50% of those remaining days. Is it any wonder they can never get anything done? That in itself, should be the outrage of US Tax Payers.
Ron Dwyer August 2, 2012 at 04:39 pm
How does one identify themselves to a police officer? You need ID to withdraw funds from a bank or cash a check. ID at the ballot box should be a non-issue, it should be required period.
Joseph Peruzzi August 3, 2012 at 12:44 pm
To the writer who feels voting is not a right, but only for the privileged. One of my most entertaining politicians in Oakland Township would probably agree.
He likes this quote from Plato...One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. I try to not think of anyone as inferior, but seemingly this is a minority position these days. However, I do agree with this quote from Plato which might fit most of this discussion...“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”
Ron August 10, 2012 at 01:58 pm
Fear without facts. Inventing problems where none exist in order to deny people their right to vote. It is curious that only the Republican party chases this rabbit down the hole.
I have no problem showing anyone my drivers license, but certainly elderly folks, the infirmed, handicapped and others that do not drive would not have such documents. Forcing these same people to go to the Secretary of State to get a state ID is also ridiculous. These people are LEGAL in the eyes of the State of Michigan on many other level, not the least of which is paying taxes,,, yet some would deny these people their right to vote anyway. Show me FACTUAL statistics regarding voter fraud in Michigan and let's have a real discussion about the need for reform. I would suggest any fraud is minimal and in no way affects the outcome of an election, state, local or national. Michigan has more important issues to deal with, yet our legislature is on an endless boondoggle to restrict the rights of citizens it does not agree with. This is democracy?
kidcat24 August 10, 2012 at 02:11 pm
How to steal an election. In Ohio the Democrat districts are having their voting time cut but in the Republican districts they are extending the time.

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Tom B June 18, 2013 at 07:42 pm
Way too much for a college having financial problems.
Daniel Lai (Editor) June 12, 2013 at 03:09 pm
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Hasn't even worked one day? Not one day in 15 years? Really? Not even credit for one day? When IRead More worked at the Press & Guide (which eliminated my position in a budget restructuring that has continued under various corporate owners at the P&G for a decade and a half, resulting in them moving their offices to Southgate and more recently just out-and-out eliminating their editor, sports editor and photographer) we had a policy of no anonymous letters to the editor. This was done because, while everyone has the right to express their opinion, putting a real name with an opinion meant people displayed more decorum and, well, less cowardice than is allowed in online comments from the shadows. Joseph, the benefit of post-employment health care after just eight years of service may have, in the early 1990s, been more acceptable in some way I can't figure (retention of key department heads has been cited as a reason, as was that it apparently mirrored a benefit for state officials), but it clearly was part of the excesses of Wayne County that was unjustifiable and unsustainable in the 2000s. This practice was ended two years ago by a resolution I introduced.
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Joseph Borrajo June 13, 2013 at 10:08 am
Thank you Gary Woroncahk for the response.
laplateau June 11, 2013 at 11:28 am
Yeah, unless the drinking trough is filled with taxpayer water.
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Joseph, Are you bordering upon slander? Is this the reason for no more info? I hope you are not.Read More Perhaps you are picking up on some nasty rumors and repeating them here. You should know better than to do that. So, if you have real proof, tell it like it is and don't hedge. What you are saying in your post is dangerous to you and those who you are referring to, so, as the saying goes...put up or shut up.
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Whether or not the facts of this opinion piece are true, I thoroughly believe Robert McNamara wasRead More the personal trainer for Kwame Kilpatrick. McNamera would have been spending a lot of time in prison if he didn't die. Ficano is a joke in my estimation. I know no one who wants him to remain in office. With today's survellience techniques and high tech gadgets, politicians can no longer get away with what they did in the past.
Joseph Borrajo June 10, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Follow the money!