Some parents are calling for harsher punishments - do you think the teens should be expelled?

I don't feel that school admininstrations should prevent these students from completing their school year. We certainly don't need any more dropouts! However, I do feel that these students should have to complete some form of community service for the rest of the school year. My stomach is sick thinking about the families who were affected by these salacious letters and my heart goes out to them.

How about 2 days of community service for every name in the letter. And the community service is whatever the effected families decide they should do...

I recently pulled my daughter from Edsel Ford for being bullied. Thier anit bullying policy is a freaking joke. I was in that office all the time complaining and never had the issue resolved.

What ever happened to the phrase, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me" ??

The folks named in the letters can always sue for libel, but , if the information is corrrect, then other issues arise.

Note passing and such has been going on since the beginning of time. Kilpatrick's texting is an example of poor judgement in notes, but he followed it up with poor judgement in a personal manner. Now he is in jail....

These miscreants, while not the sharpest knives in the shed, at least need a day in court or somewhere to explain their actions, or have a chance to explain themselves.

Of course, the bullies can easily be bullied in the same way with letters, but now one is lowering down to their gutter level, and perhaps there is a better solution.

If the letters are lies, take 'em to court. If not, well, that's another matter......

The problem is, doubt is now cast in the mix, and reputations are sullied, not fair to the victims.....So , what to do?

The pen is mightier than the sword Lee.
And although I don't condone their actions, words that cause this amount of damage, in my opinion, have to have a sense of truth to them; I do for some reason feel a sense of pride in our upcoming youth for using words instead of physical violence to convey their anger, frustrations, and self pity.
This day has been a grave loss for the Psychological community, but, a powerful win for the upcoming bards of literature.
(I apologize if anyone has been hurt by my word, but if you are... then you've proved my point)

Lee already mentioned about whether or not the letters to those parents houses were true. I wanted to mention that possibility, but Lee got there first. Seems like there is a possiblilty that some girls are enraged that they were "caught". The letters to the parents houses was damage enough, but everything else was overkill, esp. going online with this gossip. Lets suffice to say that if the letters were true, then you girls know who you are.

i was bullied at dhs for the 2 years i was there, i dropped out and going to cyber high school westwood.
bullying isn't going to stop no matter how many talks you have, no matter how many things you take away from them. we need to shut down schools and do homeschooling or cyber school. by the time we get into highschool we have already learned out social skills. so saying we need out kids to have social skills, its kinda bs.

We need to relize. Kids are taking there own lifes because they are getting picked on. When are aldults going to grow up and wake up and see this is a very real issue??

Being the victims of bullies, and it is bullying that we are talking about, whether verbal or physical, either way, it is unacceptable. As a teen or tween, reputations and credibility take on a lot more importance, later on, as we mature, we can laugh those bullies off with a shrug....but how to restore that young self esteem that has been attacked?

One way is to switch to home schooling. The two websites below are just a few that show the many positives, and the issue then is removed from the school.
A side effect is that both venues produce, in most cases, much more intelligent students, without all the drama of the social scene at school.

http://www.homefires.com/articles/top_ten.asp
http://www.oddparts.com/missions/homeschool.htm

My daughter was picked on at Dearborn High in the 9th grade. Only once. Why?
With 5 years of Hapkito martial arts training ,growing up as a kid, to build confidence, she used a simple move as if to 'shake hands', and with such a trained move, he had two choices, drop to his knees or have broken fingers. He went to his knees. She thanked him for his 'courtesy' and was never bothered again.
If I were the parents of those miscreants, I would be concerned for their safety right now...... As Patrick Swayze remarked, "No one puts my baby in a corner!" or something to that effect. The 'Shawshank Redemption' had some other good lines ....

Bottom line is, Those miscreants are probably 'marked men' about now.....

this bullying policy was put in place only this yr !!!!! Little late I think. The longer the policy has to work,and kids see punishment for doing it, the better. If the policy is a joke then thats the way it is and anyone with half a brain would homeschool/cyber school and get with the 21st century learning. Can learn when your freekin petrafied to be at school.. HELLO? But parents still send em'... so parents are clueless to some extent and school have their hands tied and teacher can only make a small difference in the area. When it is said that 'bullying will happen' .... NO IT DON"T HAVE TO.. it the rules that slack and who are over the rules .. people. What if you are harrassed everytime you step foot into Meijer supermarket... would you still go to that place! Michigan laws give us a way to keep our kids from many harms when with school limit... take advantage of freedom while you can. HSLDA.com will help you decide,get answers and give confidence.

These students don't view a few days off from school as a punishment. I have never liked the idea of suspension,and I really think the district needs to come up with something better. Even, In-School Suspension would be more effective..

Well Editor Jessica, since I can't reply to your commental reply to me, lets just suffice it to say that if the letters are false, then punishments should be metted out. If the letters are true, thank goodness that the parents now know something about their daughters that they either didnt know or didnt care about. I dont see this as qualifiying as bullying. This qualifies more as character assault, if false. Thats a slander case for the 19th district court to deceide if charges are filed. Then the authors can explain their actions in court. However, if they have proof to justify their claims, what then Jess ?

Even if they can prove that what they wrote was true, what justification would they have for writing it other than to hurt the girls they included? That may not stand in court as libel, but I think it definitely qualifies as bullying under state and local standards.

You may be right Jess. But haveing had 3 kids in Fordson, I can testify that kids can be cruel sometimes, even malicious. Since these students started the ball rolling with the publishment of these allegations, now lets see what happens. I am just an opinioner of a dis-intrested nature.

if the girls were on it who are innocent victims..i say blast em...but if some are true and momm n daddy finds out then my tear ducts are closed

i noticed none of the girls or their parents are saying the things were not true...just upset someone said it and yelling victim

Those boys should be punished, however, not with time out of school , Chances are they are the ones who need more classroom time to raise the bar for doing things to improve their community, rather than to belittle young girls, who in their opinions are
not respectful . obviously in the eyes of these boys they are close to tramps.
" Skank/s," " Ho/s," words used by young boys, says much about how they now view some young ladies. If there are some forms of building high esteem for the opposite sex in these young boys, then they Escape becoming the Ted Bundys' of tomorrow . Or even a Josh Powell, now deceased out of Washington state . .

There has to be a better punishment than suspension. This probably makes them look "cool" to their friends. I say give them in-school suspension with additional chores, such as cleaning the bathrooms. That would be a much better punishment. Then, it certainly wouldn't look "cool" to anyone to bully.

I agree this behavior is outrageous. I also feel they should end up in court. However I feel that the school is out of line. For some reason the school feels they have the power to run lives outside of school time, property or any reference to school at all. Where in our justice system do we give the power to be judge, jury & jailer to the school board. This is over reaching. No school teacher should have any say outside school or school activities. Where does this stop? Can the school decide what is appropriate to ware to the mall? After all the kid is part of the school and therefore represents students of that school wherever he is. We have a court system. Take them to court for slander for untrue things stated in the letters. Sue for hurtful statements that cause emotional distress. But for goodness sakes the school system has no say in my or my children's lives before or after the school day. Why would anybody give such power to a group who already has a superiority complex? Here we go again. Now there will be a law suit against the school for their actions that did not involve the school to start with. And the school has so much money to waist defending their inappropriate actions in court and paying settlements (rewards) to these punks.

If the girls did not sleep around then this would not be a problem. Even though it was not right what those kids did they should not have got suspended. They did nothing that was not legal. Give me a freaking break.

Funny how when it was people like me and my brothers no one cared, but now that its spreading it is a problem right? Bullying will always be a problem no matter who it is from or to. Until we learn and teach our children to respect each other these problems will continue to tarnish our society and hurt us. I think suspending them was out of line being as it did not happen at school it was not the teacher's or the school's responsibility to handle the situation. The parents themselves need to get involved and show their children doing this and teasing other children is wrong, instead of expecting someone else to stand in and do their job. I just hope we learn from this and other incidents, and build the world in our image, a world we can all be proud to be a part of, a world that does not reject or hurt anyone, One where we chose to be responsible over irresponsible, as well as to be respectful of each other, and not because we have to but because we are smart enough and good enough to realize it is what is right.

@david how was my commentt wrong ?

We know this is an emotionally charged issue, but please keep the conversation civil, appropriate and in line with the Patch Terms of Use: http://dearborn.patch.com/terms.

Obviously, these teens were not well parented. I could not imagine myself doing anything like this at that age. My parents raised me to respect others. So when I read of bullies -- I wonder where the parents are in all this? Perhaps they need to be taught parenting skills? I remember seeing a show about bullies and they did a hidden camera and showed the parents how their children acted. The parents could never believe their child would do that sort of thing -- and acted shocked when they did. Well, hello? Not facing the truth of what you raised? Of what values you taught them?

That's a very good observation. From what I've observed, children live what they see. Being unkind to someone is part of today's climate. Look at the media. Now I don't "blame" the media per se, but people need to see the harm this kind of behavior has on our youth. And, bullies most likely have been bullied so that keeps it going. Regardless, this is all so sad and unnecessary. Didn't anyone ever hear of "do unto others"?

I would put them in in-school suspension for the rest of the year, isolated from the rest of the student body, but able to finish school because dropouts incur bigger costs to taxpayers, and they shouldn't be allowed to attend graduation or any other school function. If I were the parent of one these girls, I would sue each of them for emotional distress, slander, and humiliation. Kids need to learn that there are consequences for their actions and that they can't go through life thinking that they can treat people any way they want.

I remember when I was in high school (pre-historic days before the internet) there were these dreadful things called "slam books," which were usually black & white notebooks that were passed around school for the sole purpose of kids writing hateful things anonymously about other kids. The books were usually started by some insecure, angry "cool kid" bully and other insecure kids who were desperately seeking approval would write in it, even if they didn't really want to be mean, just to "be cool, fit in."

I remember the first time someone asked me to write in one, I was horrified and simply refused. I've never bullied anyone in my life, even as a kid, whether I liked them or not, because I was raised correctly. My parents taught me how to be kind, and how to remove myself from the crowd, be my own person. Bullying will never disappear in school, however kids learn from their parents. Show me a bully kid and I'll either show you a bully parent or an uncaring, dysfunctional one.

First of all, these students are all under age which makes their parents also responsible for their actions. I totally disagree with suspension. The students should remain in school. However, one or both of their parents should be mandated to sit with them. If you want to make them do community service, then the parent(s) should also accompany the student. Only when you inconvenience the parents in a manner that will make them lose both time and money will they take the responsibility to deal with their child's actions.

There are a lot wrong ideas and actions here. I agree that making the school "responsible" for the punishment (suspension, expulsion, etc.) is not the answer. Actions like this happen outside of school, even in the adult world. How many times do we read about some adult creating a website or posting a comment on Craigslist "bullying" another adult? Even worse is when an adult is found bullying a child, like what we have seen recently Downriver. It's just easy to make the school "responsible" for providing the punishment. The problem lies with the parenting. Children do what they do because they copy from adult actions and, with actions such as this, do not receive the proper guidance from the parents.

A boy sends out a letter to a girl's family stating that the girl leads a questionable life. The parents (both of them, as hopefully it will not be a single-parent family situation, but that's another issue) should sit down with the girl and discuss this letter, talking about why someone would say such comments and explaining to her that if the information is not true, she can hold her head high and be a better person. They can also let her know that if this harrassment continues, they will take legal action against the boy and his parents. If it does continue, then the parents should be responsible enough to cooperate with authorities in an investigation.

Anyone remember those "Slam Books" back in the 50's? Everyone had one! They had each classmates name on a page where other students could write comments about them. Some were really racy and others just humerous. Some really took offense and I had to tape my book back together many times. Nobody was expelled and most took it all in fun.

(Continued)
Actions such as this show how irresponsible the parents of the boy truly are. Irresponsible parents should receive a bit of the punishment for the crime. If it is found that this letter-writing is a civil crime, then the parents (as they are legally responsible for the welfare of the boy), should also be given just punishment (public service, suspension of driver's license, etc.). In short, people have refused to take personal responsibility for their actions and expect society to provide the resolution.

A boy doing this is looking for attention, probably because he is not getting any attention in his home environment. His "family" then becomes his peers at school, who proceed to do the same actions. He is looking for a reaction. If there are girls crying and parents complaining to the school system, then he got what he wanted. If it is ignored, then he failed. Unfortunately, he may seek out other avenues (perhaps even more damaging) to get that attention. It all comes back to proper/improper parenting at home.

Finally, and this is what will probably get my comments flagged for deletion, I am slightly offended at the grammatical errors not only in the original article (it makes me think that ANYONE can claim to be a writer or editor), but the replies and comments as well. A responsible adult should be able to generate a proper sentence.

I'm off of my soapbox, I probably won't be back, but I ask all of you to truly THINK before you take action.

What is the problem? These boys are learning what many girls are.
These skanks need to get over it..

Why is Defamation being reduced to Bullying? Forget about justice through the school. The parents of these girls, should ban together and seek legal counsel. The wise guys need a wake up call.

Bottom line is this--they would not be embarassed if what was contained in the letters was not true. Hurtful yes--wether it is true or not. But embarassement only comes from something true being brought to light.
The girls promiscuious behavior is what led to this---should have kept your mouths and legs closed, then this wouldnt be happening. You caused this, you made your bed, now lay in it!

Christine...do you mean she should have kept an aspirin between her knees? That's how it sounds and imo, that's so inappropriate it's not even funny!

Wait a minute . . . I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Assuming what was written in the letters is false, those who wrote them should receive maximum punishment, but if it's true, that's an entirely different story. I'm a teacher and the sad state of reality is that some high school girls will have sex with any male on two legs, multiple partners on the same night (as in the instance I'm aware of) in which a girl has an orgy (their words, not mine) with the entire football team, proudly spreads the news at school the next day, and then is idolized by many of the other students. And now we're supposed to feel sorry when some one informs their parents of similar behavior? How about going after those who spread it around the internet? I guess it's ok to proudly announce what a sl*t you are yourself, but if some body else talks about it, it's time to get out the torches and pitchforks.

If legal action is possible, it results only in punishment [school suspension and even expulsion are typically not viewed as punishment by student perpetrators]. Punishment never makes amends for the illegal action. Direct atonement to the people injured by these bullying/harassment actions is needed; however, this is rarely looked for or done. Most people are satisfied with punishment.

well i read a few comments and i am wondering if these letters will make these and all young girls make better choices as to how they act in the future i think bulling is wrong and no one should should ever harass anyone but writing a letter to inform these girls parents they need to help there kids behave better is not harassment as long as it was all true this country is going to hell and we need all the help we can get to straighten out these wayward kids

On my last word on this subject...even I am surprised at the amount of outrage and concern about this matter, leading ppl of all ages to comment their thoughts. I wish we had more comments on a more important issue, namely the property tax issues and the water bill costs in this city, which we all love to live in. Sure, it is a likely fact that the parents of these girls are now upset and outraged over this. But, I wish more young ppl would be equally outraged at the plight of some of their parents who live in this city, who are going to experience the burden of highly increased taxes on their homes, not to mention what was not mentioned here, at least as I could see about the comeing new 8% increase of our water bills, the fourth yearly increase, in as many years. Each dollar increase in these things is one dollar LESS for the needs and maintence of your families, and these increases total MANY dollars. Lets see some righteous outrage about that.

Putting something in a mailbox is a federal offense. The parents should go to the police and see if there is a chance of the bullies being charged with a federal crime. They deserve everything coming to them.

there are several meaning for shank What does the word shank mean? i hought it meant ... A shank is an improvised stabbing device, usually used in prison or by hobos. To shank ...
so the boys sent a letter . if they meant to hurt the girls then they should be arrested

I agree with Marooned, we should be concentrating on reducing the city's costs with the same intensity as we give interest to the social angst of teenagers in 'heat'. Unfortunately, budgets and cost analysis don't have the same amount of 'interest. For example, my pet peeve with the city is the hundreds of thousands of $$ spent on 'justification' costs. I commented on it last year, and could not even get the city to respond.
Perhaps if I titled it, justification for sex $$ in the 19th district court, it would get noticed. Here is my original comment, still viable, still side-stepped by the city.

"Look at the proposed budget for Dearborn, around 300 pages. Find it here. www.kristyn4council.wordpress.com. Just in the first 4 pages, dealing with the 19th Dist. court, having the 19th district court in Dearborn pay just 15% of their health care costs would save tens of thousands. Ditto for justification costs, the practice where, if your spouse already has good health care coverage , somehow , you are 'justified' to receive a payment from Dearborn taxpayers to make up for what the city is not paying toward your healthcare costs since you are covered by your spouse. In the private sector, that was stopped decades ago.

One thing for sure, the sex and schools issue has gone beyond the 'holding hands' topic discussed last month. 1st, 2nd, what base are we on now???

John, in the name of helping you out, I dis-regard my statement about haveing had my last word on this subject. The word is not shank in this case. The word is "skank". This word is a derogatory term for females, usually bestowed on less "attractive", and/or, so-called less "morally chaste" women. In other words, an insult.

New Jersey had an anti bullying law. It's already been pulled because a state panel ruled that the new anti-bullying law amounts to an unfunded mandate and is therefore unconstitutional. Bi-partisan legislators are working to have it restored. There are so many schools of thought on this, but the bottom line is that people should not treat people without regard for their humanity, but to respect them, whether they like them or not. If kids...and adults, won't do that, it makes a law necessary. If not to stop, at least to deter.

@Cynthia- As you pointed out in was called unconstitutional because it was unfunded not because it was not needed. I'm sure they will have something in place soon. Most schools have already implemented programs. At my school it has been firmly enforced.

DrK...

Your comment about pulling wings off of 'flies' regarding this teen sexual scandal did remind me of some sexual fly humor....

A woman walked into the kitchen to find her Husband stalking around with a fly swatter.

What are you doing?" She asked.

Hunting Flies" He responded.

Oh. ! Killing any?" She asked.

Yep, 3 males, 2 Females," he replied.

Intrigued, she asked. "How can you tell them apart?"
He responded,
3 were on a beer can,
2 were on the phone.

Expulsions would likely make these boys local heros among their peers so not a good idea, however warranted. This would likely increase copycat events, too. Punishment rarely works well with kids, their minds simply aren't mature enough and teens are beset by raging hormones. Indeed, ironically, the most likely motivation for the letters is spurned advances by the boys or their friends, given the constant barrage of sexism from the pseudo-elite white conservative males, it would be hard to discount. These boys aren't growing up in a sexual vacuum. Better to video them writing their confessions on a blackboard, make an apology to their victims, and post the videos on Youtube. Public shaming is effective and will discourage the coptcatting that has already been seen.

What a dirty shame! I bet my life on it these boys were brought up in a home that the parents showed no respect for each other. If these boys ha a good father figure to tech them how to respect a lady they would never think of doing something so cruel .

I agree S.b. This situation boils down to values and character. I am not even going to get into it about the double standards about boys fooling around vs. girls doing the same, which is the case here. Enough said. But people, please, just as we need to teach our daughters self respect and virtue, and thinking twice about who they choose as friends; we need to teach our sons about values like decency, respect and good judgement. Is being a gentleman that obsolete? Why the malice and cruelty? This was a mean-spirited personal and psychological attack. And against individuals that they shared enough feelings for to get intimate with. I guess they were friends at some point. Do these boys just prey on girls? These boys need guidance- and punishment. Their actions were malicious, slanderous and defaming of character. I think the families of these girls need to press criminal charges. Talk to your daughters about consequences of their actions, but stand by them, as they are victims. And the school had better make serious consequences for these boys, or else copy cats will soon follow in their footsteps. And who knows who will be targeted next. Parents: let us embrace our children. Let us really get to know them and what they are capable of. These will be members of the adult society soon. Either they will learn a lesson, or go on to commit further disgusting crimes in the future.

These letters aren’t just a form of bullying, they sound like a form of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment in schools is prohibited by a federal civil rights law called Title IX. Title IX requires a school to investigate incidents of sexual harassment and take effective steps to prevent it from happening again. Disciplining the perpetrating students is not enough—a school must take action to change the school culture and send a message to the school community that this behavior will not be tolerated. For more information on bullying and harassment and the responsibility of schools to prevent and stop harassment, check out our FAQs on the subject (http://www.nwlc.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/titleixfrequentlyaskedquestions_2.pdf) and if you have any more questions or need help, please contact us at info@nwlc.org or (202) 588-5180.

Nat....Beyond the fact that the involved parties are students, why are the schools involved?
The letters were not passed around in school, but in home mailboxes. There was no sexual harrassment in the schools, so the feds are out.
The schools have no liability here. This is a civil matter between young adults and their parents about incidents that took place off school property.

Put the onus where it belongs. On the young adults and their actions, and the consequences.

I guess the blame is on both: students sleeping around and the boys writing those letters

Shame on these boys that wrote and passed out the letter. I think that they should be punished big and really hard and they need to be taught some manners. I am sure that they would not like it if someone wrote this kind of letter about their sisters.

I think the boys do not deserve a hard punishment all they did was give their opinion is is called freedom of press these are our rights an they have a right to tell people Wat they think of them

You guys keep saying "They boys" who are these boys? Are you 100% sure there wasnt any girls involved? Or the girls didnt write it for some attention and then regretted it because it got so big and started blaming other people? If your not sure then shutup.

It takes two to tango. I am sure the girls are not innocent nor the boys. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Shame on both parties. Parents need to wake up and take more pride in their child's education rather than listening to their children complain.
The crime did not take place on school property, the envolops, stamps or paper were not from the school.The letters were not hand delivered on school grounds. Thus, letters were delivered to two other schools districts. Therefore, the problem belongs to the parents, victims and predators. Is there legal action- - maybe.
Times are changing. Parents need to help out in schools, hall duty, lunchroom, or assisting students. Make a community rather than destroy a community.

Easydude, your suggestions make sense, I wonder what the present school policy is regarding parents showing up during the school day, asking to observe teachers in 'action', helping out with study halls, monitoring halls, keeping the PSA to a low level, etc.

The schools say the parents should be more 'involved' in their student's education, so are the schools making it easy for parents to participate during school hours?
Home schooling is, of course, direct parent / student interaction. Montessori allows parents to show up anytime, but they need to 'check in' to make sure they are 'legit' parents, or observers , and are not themselves troublemakers.

So, can parents just show up at schools and get involved? That may enlighten all parties involved, and keep the students and teachers focused, knowing that folk are really interested in what they are doing, and that it is important work.